FLTR: Monika Ritsche-Martke, Petra Rudolf and Ilaria Zardo - image credit: Gina Gunaratnam

Petra Rudolf, chair of the EPS Equal Opportunities Committee, and Gina Gunaratnam, EPS communication coordinator, interviewed Ilaria Zardo [IZ], from the Department of Physics, University of Basel (CH), and Monika Ritsch-Marte [MRM], from the of the Institute of Biomedical Physics, Dept. of Physiology & Medical Physics, Medical University of Innsbruck (AT). They are laureates of the EPS Emmy Noether Distinction 2022.

Why did you choose physics?

IZ: I was interested in Greek, Latin and Philosophy. When I told my parents I wanted to study physics, it was a big surprise. Especially to my father who wondered why I had studied all these subjects to "end up" with sports (in Italian "physics" and "sports" is the same word).

MRM: I wanted to find a position in relation to Nature. I come from an academic family, so they encouraged me. But outside, I didn't get positive reactions. After having attended the Open Days in Innsbruck, I knew that I wanted to get a master's degree in sciences.

What is the most rewarding aspect of your career and what difficulties did you encounter?

MRM: It is nice to have recognition from the community but the most rewarding is when I do active research, when I get results and I understand things from Nature.

In the 80s', women had to face difficult times. There were aggressive attitudes.  My younger brother and my husband are also scientists and they were offered positions while I didn't get one.

IZ: The most rewarding is when I first finish a project. When I realise that I found something. When I have gone through all the paths to get where I want to go and I reach it, this is a rewarding moment. It is also beautiful to see the same way of thinking/development in people you work with.

Difficulties: We are trained to be scientists but not to deal with people. You have a strong contact with your colleagues. You need trust and faith. This is very challenging.

Recommendations to encourage diversity

IZ: I am extremely happy to have a very diverse group: different countries, different backgrounds. I was motivated by a colleague who told me that you gain much more from someone who is different from you, who will have another approach to a problem.

MRM: Quotas are important to get women involved [in research groups] and I don't care about being called "Quotenfrau" ("quota woman" in German). It shouldn't be the aim but is a necessary measure to have more women. If they can do the job, they should be given the chance. 

Career and family

MRM: I married a colleague! So there was competition between us. It is difficult to get everything you want once you have a family. I consider it a "fermionic principle ": either you choose the field of research you are interested or the place where you want to live. You cannot have the two at the same time. My advice: be determined but flexible. And ask yourself the following: What is something I cannot live without?

In my case, I changed fields: from theoretical physics, I switched to medical physics.

IZ: "I am not a hero!" I have three children and my husband is also a physicist working in industry. I would advise to not pay attention to judgement. When asked about children, you can answer that your husband is never asked about them.

More info

• EPS Emmy Noether Distinction
  
• EPS Emmy Noether Distinction 2022 for Ilaria Zardo and Monika Ritsch-Marte
• Monika Ritsch-Marte Research Group
  
• Ilaria Zardo Research Group and  announce on the website nanoscience.unibas.ch

Giuliana Galati is a 30-year old physicist. After graduating in Nuclear, Subnuclear and Astroparticle Physics from Bari University Aldo Moro (Italy), she completed her PhD at Naples University Federico II, working on the underground physics experiment OPERA searching for neutrino oscillations. In 2017, she won the national "Bruno Rossi" prize for the best PhD thesis in Astroparticle Physics, awarded by the Astroparticle Physics Committee of the Italian National Institute for Nuclear Physics (INFN). In 2019, she was awarded the national prize "Ida Ortalli" for commitment and effort in the science field by the Italian Physics Society.
She is now working on dark matter search and medical physics.

Giuliana is also highly involved in science communication. She co-founded a science podcast (www.scientificast.it) aimed at conveying complex science topics in a way that is accessible to all. This podcast became one of the most famous in Italy. Moreover, recently, she became one of the authors and hosts for the Italian TV series Superquark+, aimed at disseminating science to a broad audience (http://www.raiplay.it/programmi/superquarkpiu).

Luc Bergé (LB), President-Elect of the EPS and chair of the EPS Equal Opportunities Committee, interviewed Giuliana Galati (GG).

LB: Why did you choose to study physics?
GG: I have always been very curious about how physical phenomena work, but in middle school I hated mathematics and preferred literature. In Italy, for the final exam at the end of high school, students are asked to prepare an essay. I chose the topic of “Time” and on my own, I studied the paradoxes of Einstein’s relativity. It was like falling in love! What impressed me the most was that physics seemed to be magical, but at the same time real, without tricks or illusions!
I must admit that I wasn’t really fully aware of what I was getting into!

LB: Any concerns about balancing your family life and a career in physics?
GG: Sometimes yes, but I don't think that physics is the problem. The reality is that I like what I do and if I have a computer, I can work anywhere and at any time. If at the very beginning of your PhD, you start working more than you should, later it becomes difficult to do less. You keep working also outside working hours, sometimes neglecting leisure and a social life.

LB: Are you worried about finding a job in physics?
GG: I know that it is difficult, but in general I’m an optimistic person and I think that things will go well. If I cannot pursue a career in physics, I will find a plan B!

LB:  What has been personally the most rewarding experience and also the biggest difficulty encountered so far in your career?
GG: It’s hard to think of a single rewarding experience: every time I accomplish a task, I feel rewarded. Finding a difficulty is easier: the biggest one is realizing – and it happens often to me! – that I’ve made a mistake or that I still have so much more to learn….

LB:  Did you encounter any difficulty in finding funding for a PhD or a postdoc position because you are a woman?
GG: No, I did not. In my research group there are many women and, so far, I have never felt preferences for someone just because he was a man. Nevertheless, it’s evident that most full professors are men. I hope things are already changing and that no woman will soon have to choose between having a family or a career.

LB:  Any suggestion to guarantee a balanced gender representation in physics?
GG: That’s a challenging question. I don't like those systems that have a quota for women: I don't want to be hired or win a competition just because I’m a woman.
What I would like is to have equal opportunities in physics and equal obligations outside the research world. For new mothers, it would be useful to have more supportive infrastructures, for example, day-care or kindergartens.

LB:   Any particular advice for a young aspiring researcher?
GG: The first is: “Don't give up!” I still remember that I spent the first six months at university crying every afternoon because I couldn't understand most of the lessons. I felt lost and I believed that I couldn’t make it.
The second one is: build a team. Together we are stronger when preparing for an exam or when working as researchers. Share ideas, ask for help, offer help. Don’t be a lone wolf.

LB:  Do you have any female ‘physicist cult figure’ or ‘role model’?
GG: Absolutely! One of them is Prof. Mariateresa Muciaccia, one of my Professors at university. When I was a student, she was one of the few women full professors. Her lessons were the first ones that made me say: “ok, I’m in the right place!”. I was really fascinated by her and I decided to ask her to supervise my bachelor thesis. I still work in that field of research, so without her my life would have been so different!
I could say that my cult figures are also great women like Fabiola Gianotti, but the truth is that my models are all the women with whom I work and have worked. Believe me: even if they are not famous, they are all great ones!

Giuliana Galati – Photo: Assunta Servello